love the concluding section. this reminds me a lot of taoism – the rationalists' answer to moloch seems to be driven by an underlying paranoia / obsession with top-down control over the universe, which, I'm increasingly coming to believe, is exactly the opposite of what's needed!
Thinking of Hanson and delusions, but they aren't something that is necessary for cooperation.
Other intelligences will be free to coordinate using algorithms that are designed and optimized for specific problems. I expect humanity will be absolutely overwhelmed by AIs that coordinate free of ego and with a shared, non-delusional, understanding of base reality.
We are talking about minds here (about "people"), not computer programs. There is no non-delusional understanding of reality and there are no non-delusional minds. The greater the mind, the greater the delusion needed to coordinate it with other minds.
Great piece, I would compare and contrast with Lou Keep's Thresher series (contemporaneous with Scott's Moloch piece,) which concludes that the era of metis is actually over
Interesting, thanks for sharing - I read a summary, and yea we're all talking about the same thing basically. Having chewed on my thoughts a little more I think I'd put my general thesis like this:
Game theory and evolution give us pretty clear null hypothesis for the future and it ain't pretty - the strongest always survive, the mighty are always righty. Weakness and "delusion" (e.g. art, spirituality, love, mercy, compassion) get optimized out of existence as the number of competing agents asymptotes towards infinite; similarly, as power asymptotes towards infinity so does infinite corruption.
That sucks. More than anything, it's just fucking boring - nothing surprising ever happens, the underdog never wins, the story always ends the same way. But this is just a null hypothesis - as they say, you don't play the games on paper.
I want to live in a universe where surprising things happen and the aforementioned delusions still have place. In some sense, I want to turn the world and its ways upside down - I want the weak and the deluded to win - but how? Not through rational intelligence or "work" because that is exactly how the null hypothesis becomes fulfilled. Reality is like a chinese finger trap, you don't get out by struggling on your own.
Workfulness/playfulness, adultiness/childliness - all of this is about realizing the ludic/dramatic nature of reality (as opposed to giving into the machinic dimension of reality in which might inexorably makes right). If this seems paradoxical/delusional - well, so is reality, that's the game of it all. This idea that reality is illusive/delusive is a pretty standard pre-modern view (Hindus, Greeks, Aztecs, etc.) - it is only us moderns believe that what you see is what you get.
There's a lot more to unpack and I will eventually take this in all kinds of wild directions but that's the jumping off point.
love the concluding section. this reminds me a lot of taoism – the rationalists' answer to moloch seems to be driven by an underlying paranoia / obsession with top-down control over the universe, which, I'm increasingly coming to believe, is exactly the opposite of what's needed!
Let everything come true
Let them believe
Let them laugh at their passions
Because what they actually call passion is not some emotional energy
But just the friction between their souls and the outside world
And above all let them be helpless like children
Because weakness is a great thing
And strength is nothing
When a man is born
He is weak and flexible
When he dies he is hard and insensitive
When a tree is growing
It is tender and pliant
But when it is dry and hard it dies
Hardness and strength are death’s companions
Pliancy and weakness are expressions of the freshness of being
Because what has hardened will never win.
Allow me to acknowledge and respect this piece. Kudos!
:D
Thinking of Hanson and delusions, but they aren't something that is necessary for cooperation.
Other intelligences will be free to coordinate using algorithms that are designed and optimized for specific problems. I expect humanity will be absolutely overwhelmed by AIs that coordinate free of ego and with a shared, non-delusional, understanding of base reality.
You could not be more wrong.
We are talking about minds here (about "people"), not computer programs. There is no non-delusional understanding of reality and there are no non-delusional minds. The greater the mind, the greater the delusion needed to coordinate it with other minds.
Great piece, I would compare and contrast with Lou Keep's Thresher series (contemporaneous with Scott's Moloch piece,) which concludes that the era of metis is actually over
Interesting, thanks for sharing - I read a summary, and yea we're all talking about the same thing basically. Having chewed on my thoughts a little more I think I'd put my general thesis like this:
Game theory and evolution give us pretty clear null hypothesis for the future and it ain't pretty - the strongest always survive, the mighty are always righty. Weakness and "delusion" (e.g. art, spirituality, love, mercy, compassion) get optimized out of existence as the number of competing agents asymptotes towards infinite; similarly, as power asymptotes towards infinity so does infinite corruption.
That sucks. More than anything, it's just fucking boring - nothing surprising ever happens, the underdog never wins, the story always ends the same way. But this is just a null hypothesis - as they say, you don't play the games on paper.
I want to live in a universe where surprising things happen and the aforementioned delusions still have place. In some sense, I want to turn the world and its ways upside down - I want the weak and the deluded to win - but how? Not through rational intelligence or "work" because that is exactly how the null hypothesis becomes fulfilled. Reality is like a chinese finger trap, you don't get out by struggling on your own.
Workfulness/playfulness, adultiness/childliness - all of this is about realizing the ludic/dramatic nature of reality (as opposed to giving into the machinic dimension of reality in which might inexorably makes right). If this seems paradoxical/delusional - well, so is reality, that's the game of it all. This idea that reality is illusive/delusive is a pretty standard pre-modern view (Hindus, Greeks, Aztecs, etc.) - it is only us moderns believe that what you see is what you get.
There's a lot more to unpack and I will eventually take this in all kinds of wild directions but that's the jumping off point.