"As for what this maturation process involves, Mckenna has two ideas: it will require us to become like children and it will require psychedelics…lots and lots of psychedelics."
Sep 28, 2023·edited Sep 28, 2023Liked by Roger’s Bacon
I enjoyed your post, but i’m left with some questions. Without a clear definition of what is and is not ideology, it is difficult to understand the implications of decoupling. What do you believe changed before and after these events, at the psychological level? More deeply, what does this mean epistemologically? Couldn’t this post be considered an ideology itself, subject to memetic forces, and therefore untrustworthy as Mckenna suggests? Reductionist, I’m sure, but it’s an easy assertion to make from your post, elaboration would be illuminating. What do you(or mckenna) suggest take the place of ideology? again I am unsure where you put boundaries between that term and the rest of thought specifically-or is there any, given your post on living ideas? Can Ideas be trusted?
none of these questions are rhetorical, I want to know. If you read all this, thank you for your time.
Beautiful work. Also enjoyed the exposure to McKenna and the prescient novella from Chiang. Tragically, we won’t see how the war of the many ideologies comes out because said war will prevent us from resolving our multiple environmental crises. As I’ve said now for many years: excrement eventuates.
Wow. Thank you for this outstanding and satisfying read.
I find myself meditating often lately on a couple thoughts related to what you've written here. The first is from one of the individuals you cited here, Ted Chiang, in his story "The Truth of Fact, the Truth of Feeling":
"We don’t normally think of it as such, but writing is a technology, which means that a literate person is someone whose thought processes are technologically mediated. We became cognitive cyborgs as soon as we became fluent readers, and the consequences of that were profound."
The second is from Carl Jung, in his essay "Approaching the Unconscious":
"Our intellect has created a new world that dominates nature, and has populated it with monstrous machines. The latter are so indubitably useful that we cannot see even a possibility of getting rid of them or our subservience to them. Man is bound to follow the adventurous promptings of his scientific and inventive mind and to admire himself for his splendid achievements. At the same time, his genius shows the uncanny tendency to invent things that become more and more dangerous, because they represent better and better means for wholesale suicide."
Thank you for the challenging but enjoyable read! The link to the source of the final quote that you shared on developing a new language is now dead. I found the quote fascinating. Do you happen to know where I might find the source?
Thanks! Haha it is definitely challenging for a random blog post, props to you and anyone who made it to the end. The link works for me but it takes a while to load (a wayback machine link). The quotes are from the Ted Chiang story, "Understand", which is excellent (obviously). Here's a link to ebook version I found - https://ebooks.qumran.org/opds/index.php?lang=en&pageformat=html&action=bookdetails&book=879
That's so great to hear - it's definitely not a light read and I was worried people wouldn't follow all the twists and turns so I'm happy at least one person got through it all ;)
I’ve long been obsessed by cultural evolution. I think it began from an interest in fashion as a spread of ideas, in my very early teens. As a sci-fi nerd, in my late teens I was lucky enough to come across the work of Greg Eagan, whose works feel very much part of a lineage that lead to those of Chiang. Your paradoxical suggestion of “a fanatical devotion to the avoidance of fanatical devotion” lands smack bang onto the notion explored by Egan in the final story of Axiomatic, the first collection of short stories he published. The story is titled, UNSTABLE ORBITS IN THE SPACE OF LIES. In case you’ve not yet read it, I’ll say no more --other than Axiomatic’s definitely one of those books where I envy all those that have not yet read it, for the experience of first reading it that awaits them.
"As for what this maturation process involves, Mckenna has two ideas: it will require us to become like children and it will require psychedelics…lots and lots of psychedelics."
No need. Just do the Russian physical therapy:
https://eharding.substack.com/p/why-does-russian-physical-therapy
I really enjoyed this read. Mind bending thoughts and ideas. Well written.
thanks dude!
I enjoyed your post, but i’m left with some questions. Without a clear definition of what is and is not ideology, it is difficult to understand the implications of decoupling. What do you believe changed before and after these events, at the psychological level? More deeply, what does this mean epistemologically? Couldn’t this post be considered an ideology itself, subject to memetic forces, and therefore untrustworthy as Mckenna suggests? Reductionist, I’m sure, but it’s an easy assertion to make from your post, elaboration would be illuminating. What do you(or mckenna) suggest take the place of ideology? again I am unsure where you put boundaries between that term and the rest of thought specifically-or is there any, given your post on living ideas? Can Ideas be trusted?
none of these questions are rhetorical, I want to know. If you read all this, thank you for your time.
These are all great questions and the answer to all of them is yes.
"Can Ideas be trusted?" - except for this one. The answer to this one is that ideas are like people, some can and some can't.
could you elborate?
I'd strongly prefer not to. The work stands on its own.
Fantastic post, thank you for writing this!
:)
Beautiful work. Also enjoyed the exposure to McKenna and the prescient novella from Chiang. Tragically, we won’t see how the war of the many ideologies comes out because said war will prevent us from resolving our multiple environmental crises. As I’ve said now for many years: excrement eventuates.
Thanks, Ted! Hoping you are wrong but it ain't looking good...
Wow. Thank you for this outstanding and satisfying read.
I find myself meditating often lately on a couple thoughts related to what you've written here. The first is from one of the individuals you cited here, Ted Chiang, in his story "The Truth of Fact, the Truth of Feeling":
"We don’t normally think of it as such, but writing is a technology, which means that a literate person is someone whose thought processes are technologically mediated. We became cognitive cyborgs as soon as we became fluent readers, and the consequences of that were profound."
The second is from Carl Jung, in his essay "Approaching the Unconscious":
"Our intellect has created a new world that dominates nature, and has populated it with monstrous machines. The latter are so indubitably useful that we cannot see even a possibility of getting rid of them or our subservience to them. Man is bound to follow the adventurous promptings of his scientific and inventive mind and to admire himself for his splendid achievements. At the same time, his genius shows the uncanny tendency to invent things that become more and more dangerous, because they represent better and better means for wholesale suicide."
love that Chiang story (and the quote); he is definitely a big influence on my thinking here.
Not often I subscribe to someone’s substack based on a comment, Brian. But that just did it.
Thank you for the challenging but enjoyable read! The link to the source of the final quote that you shared on developing a new language is now dead. I found the quote fascinating. Do you happen to know where I might find the source?
Thanks! Haha it is definitely challenging for a random blog post, props to you and anyone who made it to the end. The link works for me but it takes a while to load (a wayback machine link). The quotes are from the Ted Chiang story, "Understand", which is excellent (obviously). Here's a link to ebook version I found - https://ebooks.qumran.org/opds/index.php?lang=en&pageformat=html&action=bookdetails&book=879
That bit about vision being important for driving more complexity has some interesting parallels.
https://knowablemagazine.org/article/mind/2021/are-spiders-intelligent
Yes! https://www.quantamagazine.org/why-did-life-move-to-land-for-the-view-20170307/
Touche.
Such a great post. Thank you!
Thanks James :)
I mean, a contender to be among my favourite long reads of the year.
That's so great to hear - it's definitely not a light read and I was worried people wouldn't follow all the twists and turns so I'm happy at least one person got through it all ;)
I’ve long been obsessed by cultural evolution. I think it began from an interest in fashion as a spread of ideas, in my very early teens. As a sci-fi nerd, in my late teens I was lucky enough to come across the work of Greg Eagan, whose works feel very much part of a lineage that lead to those of Chiang. Your paradoxical suggestion of “a fanatical devotion to the avoidance of fanatical devotion” lands smack bang onto the notion explored by Egan in the final story of Axiomatic, the first collection of short stories he published. The story is titled, UNSTABLE ORBITS IN THE SPACE OF LIES. In case you’ve not yet read it, I’ll say no more --other than Axiomatic’s definitely one of those books where I envy all those that have not yet read it, for the experience of first reading it that awaits them.
Ohhh I'm intrigued, haven't read any Egan but heard good things, putting it on the list...
I’m there with you on “the list” problem https://atomless.substack.com/p/reading-list-bankruptcy
But honestly that story of Egan’s is so bang on in regard to your “devotion to the avoidance of fanatical devotion” it is uncanny