Your Neitzsche quote reminds me of a line from Arcade Fire song "Here Comes the Night Time": "If there's no music up in heaven then what's it for?" The "it" could refer to either music or heaven; either way, there's a lot to unpack in that statement.
And "Dragonball Durag" is one of Thundercat's best songs. I'm consistently in awe of his ability to produce greatness while also maintaining the element of fun. So many of his songs — "Tron Song", "Aw Sheit it's X", most of "Drunk" — exist in that area of general goofiness yet remain splendidly fascinating art. Thundercat is a genius.
Oh cool thanks for putting this together, I edited the post and linked to it. And lol yea I don't know what kind of vibe you're laying down with this playlist but it's definitely something.
What if a modern movement tried to sacralize music, much as Islam did for images with a human likeness? I can imagine mobs of people attacking the speakers that pump muzak into shopping malls. Imagine how unappealing television, movies and radio would be without the power of music to sweeten them?
Looking forward to the future of this exploration! These contemplations are super healthy.
“In the healthy condition of man, the spiritual vital force (autocracy), the dynamis that animates the material body (organism), rules with unbounded sway, and retains all the parts of the organism and in admirable, harmonious, vital operation, as regards both sensations and functions, so that our indwelling, reason-gifted mind can freely employ this living, healthy instrument for the higher purposes of our existence”. Samuel Hahnemann ‘Organon’ of Med. were approaching 50 books on homeopathy! Can I recommend the Norland family…Misha, Luke…? Cv is an example of employing this wisdom black mantras, yantras, Nlinguistic programming and inverted homeopathic science through adjuvants and alchemical heresy. There’s a reason we’ve eaten our way around the zoo diac Chinese western, eastern…have consumed detuned substances and blood fractions and upper, lower and mid side band radiation.. this 5th generation quickly bleeds into the next…don’t get me started! Still we can transcend!
"In a culture that perceived music in this manner, it really did have the powers that they supposed—it really could, against all odds, turn the tide of a war, incite a tyrant-toppling revolution, or heal those whom conventional medicine could not help (i.e. raise the dead)."
But still, I don't see why music should be sanctified. The fact that music can potentially do great things via psychosocial effects (not to mention they're likely more limited than what the Greeks have believed them to be) that are not yet understood, doesn't mean we should restrict access to it. Moreover, an attempt to sanctify music can face serious realistic consequences, such as a government's total control of the kind of music content available to the public, which is already half the case in China.
"'But why do we destroy music? In the pages ahead, I will suggest that songs have always played a special role in defining the counterculture and serving as a pathway to experiences outside accepted norms.'"
I'm all for preserving a venue for independent creators and voices of the counterculture. Unfortunately, throughout history, this kind of venue is usually fragile and not easily accessible, due to authorities (yes I'm talking about censorship but more generally), cultures, as well as disparities in social resources (e.g. musical education, the economic stability to pursue music, etc.). Right now, although we treat music as a commodity, this treatment offers great freedom and accessibility of creation for the independent creator and members of the counterculture. It's not clear right now if there exists an alternate system that will preserve this freedom of creation, so I think we should cherish the system that we have now.
"(not to mention they're likely more limited than what the Greeks have believed them to be)" - but that's part of my point. Sure some of the more fantastical claims were probably overblown, but at the same time music really was capable of incredible things for the Greeks because of their beliefs and culture around music. Maybe it's impossible or undesirable for us to return to that circumstance, but perhaps there are some smaller ways in which we could recapture some of that and use it for good.
What this even looks like is a good question and I'm not sure which is why I didn't really get into it. I agree with everything you said re: counterculture and restricting access. Maybe it's just something more like a new cultural ethos around music, a greater awareness of its use for even subtle psychological manipulation, and lower tolerance for it being frivolously played in public places like supermarkets and restaurants. Maybe (especially with the advent of AI music) we just start to devalue recordings and value live music more, which to my ears would be a good thing.
"Maybe (especially with the advent of AI music) we just start to devalue recordings and value live music more, which to my ears would be a good thing."
I'm not sure, but I do think AI-generated music can potentially easily replace more formulaic genres of music, so that people will favor ones that are more indie and full of content, which I think is a good thing. I personally find certain trends in popular music intrusive (e.g. heavy sex/romance-related content, blind optimism regarding "success", ingrained gender roles).
Btw, this week I've been listening to Regina Spektor's _Far_ [^1] and I recommend the album. The album contains a song called _Wallet_ which hit me with nothing less than a feeling of sonder [^2].
Haha yes love the word Sonder. I've heard the name Regina Spektor but never the music, I'll check it out, and with you on the possibility and hope of AI music pushing music in new and better directions (although you could easily see the opposite happening as well).
Your Neitzsche quote reminds me of a line from Arcade Fire song "Here Comes the Night Time": "If there's no music up in heaven then what's it for?" The "it" could refer to either music or heaven; either way, there's a lot to unpack in that statement.
And "Dragonball Durag" is one of Thundercat's best songs. I'm consistently in awe of his ability to produce greatness while also maintaining the element of fun. So many of his songs — "Tron Song", "Aw Sheit it's X", most of "Drunk" — exist in that area of general goofiness yet remain splendidly fascinating art. Thundercat is a genius.
Love that quote and totally agree with your analysis, love Thundercat too
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5nf4piw1ZnhhzwyJIoMKGp?si=QYGgTZSOSqGjpx8R7mWXmA
I'm not sure what sort of party I'm going to play this at, but I'm sure I'll find a way
Oh cool thanks for putting this together, I edited the post and linked to it. And lol yea I don't know what kind of vibe you're laying down with this playlist but it's definitely something.
What if a modern movement tried to sacralize music, much as Islam did for images with a human likeness? I can imagine mobs of people attacking the speakers that pump muzak into shopping malls. Imagine how unappealing television, movies and radio would be without the power of music to sweeten them?
Ohhh I love this haha. That would make for a great short story hmmm.... not fiction I wrote about something similar (sacralizing art in general) here - https://www.secretorum.life/p/how-to-become-a-world-historical
Looking forward to the future of this exploration! These contemplations are super healthy.
“In the healthy condition of man, the spiritual vital force (autocracy), the dynamis that animates the material body (organism), rules with unbounded sway, and retains all the parts of the organism and in admirable, harmonious, vital operation, as regards both sensations and functions, so that our indwelling, reason-gifted mind can freely employ this living, healthy instrument for the higher purposes of our existence”. Samuel Hahnemann ‘Organon’ of Med. were approaching 50 books on homeopathy! Can I recommend the Norland family…Misha, Luke…? Cv is an example of employing this wisdom black mantras, yantras, Nlinguistic programming and inverted homeopathic science through adjuvants and alchemical heresy. There’s a reason we’ve eaten our way around the zoo diac Chinese western, eastern…have consumed detuned substances and blood fractions and upper, lower and mid side band radiation.. this 5th generation quickly bleeds into the next…don’t get me started! Still we can transcend!
"In a culture that perceived music in this manner, it really did have the powers that they supposed—it really could, against all odds, turn the tide of a war, incite a tyrant-toppling revolution, or heal those whom conventional medicine could not help (i.e. raise the dead)."
But still, I don't see why music should be sanctified. The fact that music can potentially do great things via psychosocial effects (not to mention they're likely more limited than what the Greeks have believed them to be) that are not yet understood, doesn't mean we should restrict access to it. Moreover, an attempt to sanctify music can face serious realistic consequences, such as a government's total control of the kind of music content available to the public, which is already half the case in China.
"'But why do we destroy music? In the pages ahead, I will suggest that songs have always played a special role in defining the counterculture and serving as a pathway to experiences outside accepted norms.'"
I'm all for preserving a venue for independent creators and voices of the counterculture. Unfortunately, throughout history, this kind of venue is usually fragile and not easily accessible, due to authorities (yes I'm talking about censorship but more generally), cultures, as well as disparities in social resources (e.g. musical education, the economic stability to pursue music, etc.). Right now, although we treat music as a commodity, this treatment offers great freedom and accessibility of creation for the independent creator and members of the counterculture. It's not clear right now if there exists an alternate system that will preserve this freedom of creation, so I think we should cherish the system that we have now.
"(not to mention they're likely more limited than what the Greeks have believed them to be)" - but that's part of my point. Sure some of the more fantastical claims were probably overblown, but at the same time music really was capable of incredible things for the Greeks because of their beliefs and culture around music. Maybe it's impossible or undesirable for us to return to that circumstance, but perhaps there are some smaller ways in which we could recapture some of that and use it for good.
What this even looks like is a good question and I'm not sure which is why I didn't really get into it. I agree with everything you said re: counterculture and restricting access. Maybe it's just something more like a new cultural ethos around music, a greater awareness of its use for even subtle psychological manipulation, and lower tolerance for it being frivolously played in public places like supermarkets and restaurants. Maybe (especially with the advent of AI music) we just start to devalue recordings and value live music more, which to my ears would be a good thing.
"Maybe (especially with the advent of AI music) we just start to devalue recordings and value live music more, which to my ears would be a good thing."
I'm not sure, but I do think AI-generated music can potentially easily replace more formulaic genres of music, so that people will favor ones that are more indie and full of content, which I think is a good thing. I personally find certain trends in popular music intrusive (e.g. heavy sex/romance-related content, blind optimism regarding "success", ingrained gender roles).
Btw, this week I've been listening to Regina Spektor's _Far_ [^1] and I recommend the album. The album contains a song called _Wallet_ which hit me with nothing less than a feeling of sonder [^2].
[^1]: Regina Spektor's (album) _Far_ on Spotify, https://open.spotify.com/album/54wpNG2Xoa7vXzAvukmFB5?si=ShzyUJMgScmV8QF7KwhSOA
[^2]: Sonder [n.] the realization that each random passerby is living a life as vivid and complex as your own… From The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows, https://www.dictionaryofobscuresorrows.com/post/23536922667/sonder
Haha yes love the word Sonder. I've heard the name Regina Spektor but never the music, I'll check it out, and with you on the possibility and hope of AI music pushing music in new and better directions (although you could easily see the opposite happening as well).